Across the current generation of game systems, all but Nintendo's have one thing in common – some sort of Achievement scheme. This is a feature that tracks certain actions performed and points reached across titles, tallying it all into one cumulative score. Nintendo's Bill Trinen has said that even though they're "not opposed to Achievements," with their next console, the 3DS, they will continue not to employ a similar system, explaining that they feel that this would inhibit players' sense of exploration.
When they create their games, [Nintendo's designers] don't tell you how to play their game in order to achieve some kind of mythical reward... Basically, the way the games are designed is they're designed for you to explore the game yourself and have this sense of discovery. To that end, I think that when you look specifically at games from EAD [the group long led by Shigeru Miyamoto] and a lot of other games that Nintendo has developed as well, there are things you can do in the game that will result in some sort of reward or unexpected surprise. In my mind, that really encourages the sense of exploration rather than the sense of 'If I do that, I'm going to get some sort of artificial point or score that's going to make me feel better that I got this.' And that, to me, is I think more compelling.
While it's arguable that this could be avoided by designers simply not revealing how to gain Achievements, as is the case with many games, it looks as though Nintendo won't employ such a system for some time, if ever – though many current titles on Nintendo platforms employ a comparable, self-contained system.
Will you miss Achievements on the 3DS, or are you happy that Nintendo's bucking the trend?
[source kotaku.com]
Comments 91
Doesn't bother me too much. I hate when an achievement pops up when I'm not doing anything very special or noteworthy (cough DEFENSE GRID ON STEAM cough).
I wouldnt of cared if it would of had achievements or not
It's a good idea I wouldn't want to train my dogs certain things just because my 3DS gives me an award for it.
Even though achievements would be nice, the fact that nintendo doesn't jump on the bandwagon is what makes their consoles so unique.
I think the problem is the organization of achievements into a ubiquitous system, which encourages obligatory, superfluous uses (You killed your first enemy!) and does tend to make the whole process a bit too predictable. Letting each game surprise you with unexpected kinds of rewards is indeed preferable.
I did enjoy the simple stamps in Wii Sports Resort, perhaps my favorite of which was the pointless and unsolicited, yet charming task of rounding up the ducks in the canoe practice mode.
I'm not opposed to achievements, either. I actually think games like Plants vs. Zombies and others improve with achievements, yet the last thing I want would to be seeing Zelda or Metroid have achievements. "You collected green rupee! 5G"
Good for you, Nintendo, achievements are mostly redundant anyway...
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Good achievements are a lot of fun, I find. Especially tricky ones that aren't clear how you achieve them. I think Nintendo is missing the point a bit.
I think it's a good thing. Too many games use achievement points as a crutch to make people play the game longer. Sure, it's nice having some "reward" for playing a bad game, but I far prefer playing a game that is done right without feeling like I'm only doing it for the achievements.
I always liked achievements it gave me an incentive to do something in-game I wouldn't normally do. For instance in Legend of Zelda I never collect all the heart pieces because I think it's a little pointless if there was an achievement I probably would do it a lot more.
Well, resident evil darkside c. for the wii has achievements.
I bet RE mercenaries will have something like that too.
Meh I don't care much either. Nintendo already puts hidden things in their games, I don't need a system telling me I just did it.
I never thought of it like that, but they have a great point! Sure, I'd like Achievements. but I really don't give a flying frack at the same time. Besides, I like Nintendo because they're not like the other game companies. They're sticking to their basics. Make a game with great single player, and sometimes a multiplayer here and there, which is always good, where as the PS3 and 360 are all focusing on multiplayer and the single player is completely disgusting! Only their third party(As in not Bungie for the 360, ect.) games can be completely good all around like Nintendo's first party. Like Assassin's Creed. Resident Evil. Call of Duty(even though I'm kinda on the fence with the game), Grand Theft Auto, Guitar Hero, that stuff, is all good! But the PS3 and 360 exclusive's single players are almost ALWAYS crap!
I'm calling BS on this one. Nintendo probably didn't implement an achievement system because of the lack of online support for their consoles.
Achievements are but empty numbers that actually mean little even though some think that they're awesome for having over 200,000 (on Xbox). Gamers will get most "achievements" anyway, so what's the point?
@briunj: Lack? How do you know the 3DS's online lacks?
That's fine. Achievements are overrated, and many Wii & DS include their own achievement system, anyway.
Even if they don't reveal how to get them, once people figure out, it gets posted online, and then everyone else reads trophylists and the thrill is gone. Personally I don't mind the omission and their reasoning kinda makes sense...The only real use I get out of them is tracking how far along my friends are in the games I lend them Then it's easy to know when to start pestering them to give them back.
I... really don't care about achievements. My achievement is by beating the game and seeing that "The End" screen when I've done it all and the satisfaction I get from seeing it. So I've played the game for five hours... so I've beaten the game without taking a hit. Yeah, that's fine that I have something tangible to proove it, but... I don't need it. Let me have fun with my games. If individual titles want to include it like Angry Birds, Mega Man 9 and 10, and the like, then more power to them. If I get them, i get them, but I won't go out of my way to get every single one. I got other games I wanna play.
Achievements can be a welcome addition to many games (Brawl Challenges, anyone?) but as a system-wide e-peen meter they just end up seeming like an excuse for developers to put less "real" gameplay in, and they can promote hostility among players (a serious issue in WoW and I'm sure other games.) I won't really miss it.
I'll just think of the Play Coins as somewhat of an achievement.
I'm happy with the Steam achievements I get! For games like HL 2, which is amazing but very linear, the achievements provide a welcome dimension of challenge (aside from higher difficulty levels). It really works well in Left 4 Dead too, since it makes you come back for more online play! And you know what's the BEST thing about Steam achievements? No score. You get the achivement, but it's not worth more than what it is in it self! No Gamerscore or sh*t like that, just the achievement! So you can't be ranked as a better player by buying LOTS of games and then get the easy ones! Oh, and the names of the achievements are usually really funny! I'm really excited about this coin system of the 3DS though! Rewards are always the best...
http://armorgames.com/play/2893/achievement-unlocked
This.
Games like Super Smash Bros Brawl had their own achievemenst system and that was nice because each achievement reward was not the achievement itself: There were stages, trophies, music tracks and this kind of real awards.
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption had its own achievement system too, but achievements were unlocked as a surprise, because there was not any listing telling you what to do in order to get these achievements (so, not spoiling you). Besides it had a real reward and not only having the achievements itself.
But I can't imagine a Zelda game with achievements. This game is already enough rewarding by doing all those side quests that a Zelda game uses to have, and I wouldn't like to be spoiled with an achievement system telling me what to do in order to get nothing but a "done" at an artificial list.
I like Steam's achievements system, but TF2, HL2, Portal, CS:S, L4D or DoD:S are generally multiplayer games or single player games which experiment an improve with achievements, challenging you to do more difficult things and extending the game's life. But I think 3DS does not need an achievement system. If any game has its own (as SSBB or MP3), it's wellcome. But not every game needs it.
Lack of achievements doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm with Nintendo on this one, if you're playing a game in a certain way just to get an Achievement (as opposed to an unlockable feature that will actually enhance the game in some way), then you're not really having the proper experience...you're just being spoon fed information and doing as you're told to rack your gamerscore up. And if a game's not good enough to keep you entertained without Achievements, then it's not fit for purpose.
I agree completely with Nintendo's reasoning here. However, achievements don't bother me too much. I can just ignore them, since they usually don't unlock anything worthwhile ingame.
I love getting achievements and trophys. But I will play games without them so it doesnt bother me. if its a good game i could careless. I like that they add some replayablility to the games and they let you show off what you unlocked to ur friends. but the 3ds looks awesome without them so im not bothered by this.
Disappointing. I didn't think I'd care about achievemebts, but then I got a 360 and found them a fun enhancement to games. Not always, of course, but when done right they are fun. And a key factor is having them system wide and able to compare with friends. It's a shame that Nintendo disagrees.
Call me ignorant but, what is the point of achievements anyway? I just got a 360 and they pop up out of nowhere but do they actually serve a purpose?
I don't like when developers put in stupid achievements that either aren't any fun to get or I'm going to get them no matter what as long as I play the game. Certain games are more suited to achievements than others. If game makers want to put in their own achievements, they're perfectly capable of still putting them in, it's been done before.
I can care less.
They aren't all bad, just kind of pointless, if you're the kind of person who likes to get 100% completion you're going to do it with or without them. Jett Rocket had a nice system of just listing them off once you finish a level, that solves one issue.
All I want to be is the coin king.
Excuses, excuses. You better have them next time Ninty, or better yet throw them in at a later date like Sony did with the PS3.
Doesn't really bug me. Besides, the 3DS has that coin feature and will probably have a bunch of games with tons of unlockables in the first place. A lack of Achievements won't stop the 3DS from being the greatest handheld system EVER.
At least we won't have any "You Got Killed by a Goomba" 0G or any of those other stupid ones. Also we won't have low to no score records for games we don't like and never want to admit to trying showing up for the world to see. No aggravation over achievements we should have received and failed to register.
I like not having to worry about them.
Meh, achievements don't really matter. If someone REALLY liked them, they could make their own on a piece of paper, and end up with far cooler objectives than the real achievements. In my opinion, achievements make a game too burdensome. For a player like me who likes to finish as much as possible, a list of 50+ achievements that take 200 hours to get is just too much.
I think achievements are a clever idea from whoever started them to make a short game long. A lot of people who buy COD, for example, beat the one player mode pretty quickly, and then head to online play. That's basically how the game is supposed to play. But how long would people continue to play if there were no goals? I'd say, though you might disagree, not very long, or at least not the hundreds of hours they play now. Achievements make a short game long. Nintendo doesn't need that.
Don't care. Achievements are pointless (You just played for 5 hours). Who cares!! If they unlocked a important part of the game then that would be worth it. I don't need some sort of self accomplishment to feel good about the game I'm playing.
Achievements are good in some games as they they help give some titles a longer lifespan but nintendo games are different. Being a long time fan of nintendo (all the way back to the NES) I have to admit that I'm glad they're not including achievements on the 3ds. Nintendo consoles and titles are all about the exploring. I'd hate for that to be spoilt by being told where to go just for some crappy points.
Not bothered. Nintendo has its own identity, no need to be too much like psbox. I'm already concerned of them maybe trying to b too much like Apple.
You know, they just could have said "We wanted to be a bit different" instead of that BS statement they issued.
Good.
I am not too bothered by this at all. I just want good games.
I think I don`t need them.
To me, i get equal the trophy and achievements to myself i matter fun with what i am playing.
I find achievements more of a way to compete with friends than motivation to do specific things in the game. I enjoy a reward when I know I do something amazing, and that way my friends can look at that and actually wonder how I did it.
And their point on losing exploration value is lost when you can hide achievements, or when you bring into account players who only play until the final boss and never play again. Adding some sort of reward would motivate these players to continue looking for secrets they would otherwise not know even existed.
And as for being different, it wouldn't be difficult to make an award system that didn't look exactly like achievements, so that's also a poor point. Really this was either a poor decision or they couldn't implement a way to do it and didn't want to say so, at least in my opinion.
That being said I'm still looking forward to it. A lack of in game rewards hasn't kept me from enjoying a game yet.
As has been mentioned, achievements give me more to do in a game, once I've finished it.
The fact that achievements/trophies are universal is a huge draw, because I can show off to my friends how I beat Contra on a single credit, or cleared all of Sonic's stages with an S rank.
That said, I'll still be getting a 3DS, and I'll still enjoy the Hell out of it.
@MrMagpie: That was excellent. Many thanks.
"Moved to the left!" I feel so important now.
Achievements have been around for a long time- even before it came onto the 360 and PS3 and enforced as so.
I rather get unlockables as Achievements instead of just points.
My idea for an Achievement system:
You have a bank and then you have the initial score.
Say you get 1000 points for whatever. So, now you have 1000 in your 'bank' and 1000 points in general. You can use those 1000 points to buy things such as extra content for your games or whatever so, let's say you wasted all of them 1000 points. Now, you have 0 in the 'bank', but your score is still set to 1000 pts. So, you get another 1000 pts, and then you have 1000 in the 'bank' and now you have 2000 pts as your initial score.
Sounded redundant, but had to make it so. Now, an achievement system like THAT mentioned would make it worth so much. It's similar to the Nook Points system in the Animal Crossing games, and even Club Nintendo. You can spend your coins, but even if you had 500 and spent it on something, and you register a game for 50 coins, you still have the 550 coin status, just 50 in your bank.
Why hasn't MS done something like this if so many think the Achievement system is SOOO great? There's room for improvement on that part.
Well, if these achievements are actually compelling people to, say, attempt to beat Mega Man 9 without taking damage, that's a pretty sinister end by itself.
I kinda like Nintendo's point too. I didn't need any reward to feel like I'd achieved something in Super Mario 64 DS by making Yoshi lay a cubical egg. If a little noticed popped up to tell me I'd unlocked an achievement, some of the magic wouldn't be there. It would feel like less of a discovery if it just got ticked off a little list, where it shared space with "Got 5 Stars!" and other stuff that we only do because the game tells us to.
Color me happy, i hate whole trophies thing.It seems that's what gamers care about these days though, not me.
I'm happy either way. Achievements and trophies extend replay value but often they make you do some really annoying or boring task for an extra 10G or whatever. If done right achievements are great, but I'll be fine without 'em.
I like how each game has the flexibility to have their own system (medals for beads in Kirby, trophy's in SSBB, KONG letters in DK). It'd be nice to share percentage of completion of games with my friends, but to be honest, I'd probably never really check. It's sort of sad Nintendo feels they can't have a universal achievement system, because devs will abuse it. All the "achievements" in Nintendo games now reward you with things within the game. I'd prefer to play for ingame rewards than gamerscore.
@odd - agreed. I just have such a hard time taking them seriously...how hard is it to go onto gamefaqs, read a how-to-get-trophies list, and sheepishly follow?
I like achievements and trophies a lot. I wonder how many people complaining/neutral on them have significantly played with or worked towards them. There are indeed, many of them that are a litle pointless. But some of them are quite clever (especially the fun names) and I don't want to see Ninty continue to ignore a feature that its competitors are using and successfully at that. It could be that one thing that makes someone get a game for the PS4 instead of the Wii2, if everything else is about equal.
Achievements are kinda pointless to me. I already have a Backloggery account, which is enough.
Not bothered but why don't they instead create a "Hidden Achievements" reward system for their games...so you have no idea how many are there or how to obtain them...only giving you a final "Special Accomplishment" achievement when you have found them all? That'd make exploring even MORE necessary.
Achievements are little JPEG thumbnails; they are literally one of the most meaningless affects added to any medium ever created. I really can't fathom the level of psychosis that drives some people to pursue the act of trying to unlock achievements.
If you were unlocking cheat codes or secrets or other forms of tangible content that can actually affect the game then I could see the point. Achievements however are just little pictures accompanied by some on screen numbers. They don't do anything other than record the fact that you are playing a video game.
If you try to perform extremely difficult tasks in games to earn achievements, if you really really spend hours working at unlocking little JPEG images, I think you actually experiencing a clinical psychotic reaction.
so wait 3DS has no achievements..... that means NO games
I didn't read through all the comments and skimmed the article, so sorry if this has already been mentioned. But Bill said this quite awhile ago, didn't he? Like, not long after E3? It's possible things have changed now. But anyway, personally I think achievements would have been a good idea, but I don't really mind them not appearing. For instance, I can't deny that they would get me to, say, ship off every available item in Rune Factory or get 10,000,000 bells in Animal Crossing. There's alot that would make me play longer, and if they actually rewarded you for doing it (like, maybe giving you a special status once you get a certain number of points, thus earning you special deals on the eShop or being the first to get to download new demos or something) then it'd be awesome. But once again, whatever they do is cool, I'm buying a 3DS regardless.
Personally, I'm glad that Nintendo did without them. For be at least, they ruin games. I've got to stop looking on IGN for heart pieces because even that ruins the game somewhat.
I agree with many of you guys when I say that Achoevements don't really enhance a game, they're more just artificial filler. Games should just be genuinely good from the start.
If Nintendo ever decides to add achievements, I hope that they are not revealed (and the player can't get any achievement-related unlockables) until after the player has beaten the game (like after the credits).
@MrMagpie I unlocked ALL ACHIEVEMENTS!
@post 61. Advancedcaveman
It's actually quite simple to understand, especially in the realm of games. It's no different than chasing a high score in a game or looking for every last pointless trinket/best stage clear time in an adventure game.
This thread has some mind boggling posts in it. (not just singling advancedcaveman out with that)
I've never gotten why having Xbox 360 like achievements matters very much. Not every game really needs them and with Nintendo systems, developers just add them to their games if they want them. There may not be official achievements but there are achievements in a lot of Nintendo games and although they are fun, they don't really add too much. I like the way WarioWare D.I.Y did them. You get songs for completing the achievements. It isn't a huge deal but it's a nice little bonus.
nintendo doesn't copy the other guys.
the other guys copy nintendo.
Yeah, achievements for me matter very little, in fact I see them as mostly a hinderance to completing games, rather than being able to simply enjoy the game for what it is & do what the game requires for everything to be 'complete' I also have to do wierd stuff that I simply wouldn't have to do otherwise & it usually feels forced & not fun. I'm sure not all games' achievements are this unfun, but most (in my experience) are, sadly enough.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Whats the point of doing a game on the hardest difficulty without an incentitive?? I wasn't expecting them to do it, but it does frustrate me Argh, next Nintendo console, hopefully
I like achievements myself. Even if they are just bragging rights, I still like them.
Agreed, Mr.Trinen!
I do like them somewhat, but it seems easy enough to add them to the game itself like in Wario Ware DIY or Brawl.
Good, I don't want to see those damn messages popping up when I'm trying to play a game.
I don't really care about achievements, hell I'll make my own. Coming up with different ways of challenging myself in games is its own reward.
Just yesterday, I somehow managed to beat Mega Man Zero 2 for the GBA just using the buster! That was quite the accomplishment in my opinion.
Or they could just throw it in because some people like them.
...AAAAND this is why Nintendo has won in my book!
All achivements should be ones that don't tell you they are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlu5Mx-9wwU
NINTENDO DOES HAVE ACHIEVEMENTS! Except they're called something different. They're known as heart pieces, quivers, TM's, Missile expansions, super short cuts(mario kart 64) and 1ups. Nintendo just gives you more than a number as an reward.
Not a huge loss in my book. In my opinion, achievements should only be used if it it's meant for something that can't easily be achieved on a normal play through and it actually feels like rewarding. In Gran Turismo 5 for example, it's nice to see that I'm getting achievements on something, but they feel way too easy and the harder ones won't appear until I actually push my gaming skills later on in that game. Most of the achievements can be completed in-game. We do have the Nintendo Coin System as an alternative.
@77
Agreed. Just thinking back over the last year of games and Nintendo delivers a lot of bonus content in game. SMG2/240 stars, DKCR/Temple levels and Mirror mode, Pokemon HGSS/16 badges and red, Kirby's Epic Yarn/furniture and collectibles, etc. I'm not going to complain about the lack of achievements when on other consoles a lot of that could have been easily paid for DLC.
I personally like achievements, I guess it appeals to the OCD in me. However, gaining points should give something back. Even though the chances are slim, points could obtain new games in the E-Shop or could the pedometer points because pedopoints sounds so wrong.
Metagame system-wide achievements are the worst thing to happen to this generation of gaming.
No longer are you playing video games for the intrinsic joy that you inherently find from exploring an open world, competing against your friends, and perfecting your platforming. Now you have "gamers" motivated by a generic "Gamerscore" and a "Ping" as trophies are unlocked.
People will spend real money, and even worse, hours of their time buying and playing terrible games because they have easy achievements and they want to inflate their console-wide "ranking". Do people really value their time so little? Or do they just value their meaningless metascore so much?
I don't want video games turned into a set of Skinner boxes. Thank goodness Nintendo has the fortitude and creativity to sell you games without relying on operant conditioning to keep you coming back. As long as "hardcore" gaming is more concerned with grinding achievements than new and compelling gameplay experiences, video games will remain stuck in the cultural ghetto.
Nintendo hasn't figured out that the best part about the 3DS isn't beating games, it's showing everyone online that you did.
I think achievements make gaming more competitive and encourages gamers to be more self centred (and to show off). That, along with permissive style parenting, is making the younger generation more ego-centric than ever. It's a bad trend...
Both Nintendo's philoso and others have their advantages. I think having achievements has the advantage of giving a goal other THAN setting our own... makes me think that's what the Wii Ultimate Challenge is trying to showcase on the Nintendo Channel... hmm...
Now, not having achievements, or at least, not telling you about achievements I think feels the best, like if you didn't use a strategy guide to the unlockables in SSBB and found some or all by yourself... that "oh cool" feeling at least to me feels the best, but that's IMO.
Overall I say Nintendo should still open up to it, while STILL embracing their own philoso... it's not like it HAS to be either or, losen up big N.
@68 By making the difficulty levels actually different a bit in gameplay (and plot) instead of artificially increasing difficulty through more health and attack power (for enemies).
I like achievements in games like Mega Man 9/10. I agree w/ MeloMan.
Sidenote: I think beating a game on one's own(minus a strategy guide/online help) is a more older gamer from 80's/90's type attitude, though not exclusive to only those gamers, of course.
Im happy that Nintendo has done this. Games can have there own individual achivements built into the game, with out having to show it off to the world. Genrally these are 100% completes such as collecting all the hearts, big coins, or E-tanks. It allows a person to play the way they like without having to feel pressured into some epe^!$ pi$$!^& contest.
I for one like achievements. Even if you don't, no use hating on them. You don't have to bother with them, and with most things you can turn the notifications off. It feels good to have platinum'd games on my PS3, though I have not one yet. Gives a reason to play through the game again, but no one's forcing you to.
@Balaclavab: I hope you're joking. There can be an incentive other than achievements.
@86 I loved the achievements in smash bros melee. like beating classic mode for the 1st time, or completing allstar mode on very hard. stuff like that. but hey if a game wanted to use achievements then its up to the game developer, no big deal. i honestly could care less if achievements were in the 3DS or not, i dont even pay much attention to it on my ps3... except for ssf4 it matters just a bit more
Nintendo achievements are fun even if it's just 5 sparkling stars in the file select screen of New Super Mario Bros. Wii. At least it has a visual effect on the game you can show off to real life friends - if you want. An achievement is all about bragging rights anyway, isn't it? Of course Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Wii Sports Resort and many other Nintendo games have truly game-enhancing and fun-enhancing achievements. I think beating NES Metroid under 3 hours seeing Samus Aran in a bikini suit was one of the first Nintendo achievements ever.
And well, 360 and PS3 games have simply the same kind of achievements. Just like on a Nintendo console: it's just additional extras, unlockables, easter eggs, etc. But the glorified Achievement "System" is fail. It's something completely different and mostly useless because it's throwing ALL GAMES into one boiling pot with no control, no balance and no sense.
And who cares what my "Gamerscore" is? Aren't there game specific online leaderboards for that on all consoles? They are straight to the point and Nintendo has them where they belong!
achievements are a waste of time anyway, there are too many games out there waiting to be played to be spending my time in one game running around finding all 300 rubber bands or some other silly item.
Disappointing. I really wanted achievements. Oh well, not refraining me from purchasing my 3DS!
I can understand the point that many are making about the idea of achievements being some kind of gimmicky intangible reward that really has no use to them whatsoever. That there will be many individuals whom will put down a lot of cash, and spend countless hours to grind out painstaking achievements which will do nothing for them at all. Also the idea that they will be used for nothing more than bragging rights towards other individuals with that same mentality, and the fighting and bickering will follow. As a long time Xbox 360 player I can say that this represents a small portion of the gaming community, in my opinion not enough to completely justify the idea of omitting the achievement system from the Nintendo 3DS, I can also see why Nintendo would want to people to find their own motivation in exploring the games without the achievement motivators.
Personally, I enjoy the achievement systems, I'm a bit of a completionist. I will explore a game on my own terms and be sure that I am thoroughly satisfied with it until I begin working towards the achievements. The achievements provide me with new goals and challenges to work towards, something someone else has set for me. They greatly extend the replay value of the games that I dished out some of my hard earned cash to pay for, and being a twenty four year old student working two jobs, I have to live on a budget. I like to stretch out the life of my games as far as I can, So achievements for the Nintendo 3DS would be a welcomed addition for me. Of course the people who don't care about the achievement systems are free to play it any way they want to, but if it isn't affecting how those individuals choose to play the game, why withhold that experience from the people who do enjoy the achievement systems?
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